hello everyone,
I’m new to this forum so not sure what to write.
Does anyone know if a social worker or a hospital consultant has more authority on the mental capacity of a patient?
A social worker assessed my father in an NHS setting in April 2023 and (we found out on October 2024) he declared him lacking the mental capacity choose a care home.
In June 2023 in hospital the consultant and discharge team declared dad of full mental capacity and to quote the discharge nurse “so it’s nothing to do with you (his family)”.
I’m asking because social services dumped a huge care home bill on mum just after dad died this year. We asked for a contract and they said he hadn’t signed one because he lacked capacity yet the hospital had refused to let him have his family for his discharge process because they had deemed him of full mental capacity.
How can someone both have and lack mental capacity for the same thing?
The huge bill has caused a lot of trauma in our family and stopped the grieving process.
I honestly think social services mucked it up and are trying to bully a payment out of us.
Has anyone else had to go through this?
I’d appreciate any advice!!
Thank you xx
Hi Alison, Im sorry for your loss, it’s a sad fact that just at a time of grief there is also paperwork and misinformation to deal with causing more upset. While I dont have the same circumstances as yourself Ive certainly been had to battle SS and LA following death of a parent so you have my sympathies. Had your father been in a care home since June 2023? Regardless of how or why he went into care the LA would have done a financial assessment on him in order to see if he was self funding or if they would be providing the funding. As they are sending a bill to your mother it would seem they have been funding his care, your mother is not responsible for paying for his care. Had any property been sold since your father went in to care which he co owned? Im trying to think of circumstances where following a death LA may try to claw back the money they have spent on care.
Sorry I have no idea why my reply is in different fonts and looks highlighted! I cant get posting o here right hence I dont very often!
@Torchie I have looked at your post and can’t see why it has changed font either. I don’t think it’s you - I think its the forum gremlins!
@AlisonL This all sounds very stressful especially at a time when you are all grieving. I suggest you copy and paste your post into an email and send it to the helpline advice@carersuk.org and they will be able to advise or sign post you to help.
Talk to Carers UK’s helpline asap. Don’t pay. Probably unlawful, no contract! Was there any formal financial assessment involving mum providing full details of their finances. I made Hampshire repay £8,000 to mum, as they hadn’t done anything properly. It’s up to whoever arranged it, to pay. You may need legal help, but contract law is very straight forward, my favourite subject when I did a Business degree long ago. Also talk to CQC.
If Dad did not have mental capacity, then family would have been involved in the assessment, there would be a copy of the Mental Capacity Assessment, and a financial assessment carried out for the care home fees to see what, if anything, your Dad needed to pay.
Ask for copies of both assessments. If they weren’t done, there’s no bill to pay.
But yes - email the Helpline.
Thank you all so much for your support, it really helps.
Mum put in a formal complaint to adult social services in March which they’ve just ignored and sent us pillar to post.
Sadly (I think this has featured on another thread) solicitors either won’t touch anything to do with a council or they charge so much it renders it cheaper to pay the bill.
We’ve repeatedly asked for dad’s contract, we’ve been sent a generic contract “similar to what your dad would have had”.
The financial assessment consisted of the social worker asking me on the phone (whilst I was at work so caught on the hop) ‘do you think your dad has over £23k’ and me saying I think so.
I will email carers UK, I wish I’d discovered you a year ago.
I don’t care what font people write in, the comfort of support transcends matching fonts!
Very quickly - a phone call asking if your Dad has over £23k is NOT a financial assessment. Ask for the written copy. Guesswork is not an assessment.
Thank you @Charlesh47 we were never told that
I would not pay it and put in formal complain lt as you had not seen any financial assessment and take it to health and social ombudsman
. They are a law unto themselves and treat people in an appalling manner. I would also contact your local MP 
good luck and hope it gets resolved.
I missed an important issue this morning. Clients financial assessments can either be done jointly or individually, and it’s up to the people concerned, not Social Services to choose. So if one of a couple has more than another, this can make a huge difference! For a joint account, it’s allocated 50/50. The helpline will have more about this, if needed.
Hi @Supernerogirl , We’ve already done all of that, the formal complaint was sent in March and it’s been ignored, the ombudsman won’t look until we’ve had a reply from the complaint (going round in circles!).
We had a meeting with our MP who sent a great letter to them on our behalf which they refused to answer any of his questions and they’ve refused to meet me and mum in person to discuss it. Only offering phone calls or a Teams meeting which would exclude mum.
You’re right in they think they’re a law unto themselves and sadly they do seem to get away with anything.
I’ve emailed Carer UK for advice but I think they’re swamped so I’ll wait to see what they say.
Citizen’s Advice suggested we took it to the papers but I haven’t got the emotional capacity for that battle, just about hanging in as it is.
The support here is helping enormously whatever the outcome (which will probably be us paying the bill before I have another breakdown)
Thanks @bowlingbun
Mum was never asked to take part in a financial assessment even though they owned the house together and had some joint accounts. As far as I know nether social services or the hospital involved her at all until the day before dad’s discharge which is dreadful.
We really were naïve going into this but then until it happens to your family people are.
Do not be bullied into paying. If all else fails the LA could in theory take you to court, but that is highly unlikely. A finance officer doing my son’s assessment told me that they never did this, even when there was blatant evidence of wrong doing. Do not talk to anyone on the phone about this. Communicate by email, so there is evidence of what is being said.
Forum posts support Markdown format, I suspect you used backticks “`” for “I`m” instead of “I’m” which results in mono-space font between pairs of backticks, you used “I`m” twice. Putting a “\” before the backtick will print it literally. I hope that will help.
Bless you Alison sorry only just seen your message. I’m not very good on this site or following it unfortunately I find it hard to navigate. I had similar thing they do not co- operate or want to meet in the middle. They wouldn’t meet with me about my son’s care I in the end agreed to pay half and they agreed. But it’s hard until sorted it’s something else to worry about. They totally drive me insane with their mannerism or lack of them shall we say: they are never accountable for anything literally get away with it. Hope you get it sorted. Sometimes we have to ask our selves what’s the worse they can do ? Then put it to one side and let do what ever they want to do. I would go to the papers and face book social media expose it all: you may have sorted it now and hope you have 
hello @Supernerogirl
Thank you and everyone else for all your support, kind words and just giving me the comfort I’m not being unreasonable as others are/have gone through the same or similar.
Sadly the council continue to be awkward and belligerent.
Fortunately I’ve been in touch with Jane from Carers Connect and she’s given sensible advice which I will follow and next year. If it’s still doesn’t get resolved I will go to the papers etc. because local authorities are getting away with whatever they want at the moment. They know we’re usually exhausted and mentally wrung out and capitalize on it.
One of the bits of advice Carers connect gave me which I’m going to follow is to not do anything about it until the new year. As Jane said, finance stuff can drag on for month/years, a couple of weeks won’t make any difference and Christmas is going to be difficult enough without dad and the dogs (sadly we lost them too) around this year. xxx
Thanks again for your support, it means so much to me.
That sounds like good advice Alison for sure.
Take care and try have a good Christmas and new year don’t let them spoil it. I don’t know how some of them sleep at night.
All the best 
x
Kindest regards
Deborah
“ Be the change you wish to see in the world “
Thanks, Zyg0te, others have had this problem,and you have identified the cause. I have looked back at the post and it is clear where the different typeface starts and finishes, and why.
General advice for anyone - leave alone that useless key top left; the “`” symbol and the other two are for advanced techies only. If you want to print an apostropohe or single quote, use the apostrophe key, just left of the RETURN key.