Hello - new member here!
My father is in his mid-80s and was very independent until last summer when he had a fall and suddenly lost his ability to walk or weight-bear or transfer from chair to bed etc. probably with a rare genetic condition as the cause.
He now needs 2 carers and a hoist for transfers and also help repositioning/turning at night. Some skin integrity issues/continence issues also developed.
The hospital wanted to discharge him to home with 4 x carer visits plus overnight care at first. Mother isn’t able to provide care for him. I could see the situation becoming unsafe almost immediately. Social services/patient flow coordinator would not listen or arrange a care home placement and they threatened legal action against mother. Caused a lot of stress. My dad has full capacity and agreed to a care home. We found a nice one and they recommended nursing care. They got FNC funding for my dad.
His savings depleted and we got in touch with the local authority. They essentially said he’d be lucky to get funding for a residential placement and would not get a nursing placement as they define nursing as very high nursing needs.
The care home has had to stop the FNC funding on this basis and has offered a residential placement for him instead, relying on district nurse for his nursing care.
The local authority is trying to move him to a cheaper home nearby. It is against his will or (in my view) his best interests as he’s only just settled in which took months. The other home is not nearly as nice/modern and if he does need nursing care in the future, they don’t offer it. The home he is in is nice but not ‘fancy’ - no cinema or pool etc. like some places have!
I’m really confused as to why the local authority are defining nursing care differently from the NHS definition which has granted him FNC (not CHC) and has meant that he can no longer have that funding stream.
Would anyone here have an idea of why this has happened? The LA really seem to be minimising my father’s needs. He’s great cognitively but his mobility needs are high. He is anxious and needs a lot of patience. Moving him would be detrimental. Can they force him to move?
Thank you and sorry for the essay. It’s been a very stressful time and I just want what’s best for him.
Have you looked at the CHC rules. They used to explain why people should not be moved, useful for the LA too.
Has dad had a CHC checklist assessment?
1 Like
Hi Bowlingbun,
Thank you for this 
I believe my dad had the CHC checklist before being awarded FNC. Despite his high mobility needs and associated problems (skin etc.), and anaemia of unknown cause (too frail to investigate for gastrointestinal cancer, anaemia managed palliatively), he’s not too unwell thankfully. So we’ve been told CHC wouldn’t be awarded. I’ll have a look at the CHC guidance regarding people not being moved once settled.
I have a feeling the goalposts have been moved recently to cut costs. The care home manager says she’s never seen this issue before whereby a person is awarded FNC, but that the local authority say they can’t have a nursing contract.
Thanks again
A lot of changes have happen thanks to the the goverment. It might be worth speaking to citzen advice as well as the carers helpline for further advice as you don’t know what else can change.
1 Like
Hi Michael,
Thanks for this. Do you know what has changed and when, roughly?
It’s honestly been a nightmare to navigate. I’m not sure whether social services are cruel by design. I will call the helplines as suggested!
If a CHC checklist assessment was done
- As a relative, were you involved?
- Was dad given a copy of the decision?
I know 10 years ago these were requirements. No idea if these have been changed.
Are you aware of Care to be Different?
@Pineapples I am not sure when these changes happen but with reports what the chancellor is suppose to be doing to local councils budget and social care budget in cutting funds, the people who need the care are being left in poverty because no one is saying anything until it is too late, to work something out.
Hi again
- No
- No I don’t think so - the FNC award was sent to him at the care home, but the manager kept it in his files instead (and she now has to cancel it!!)
I’ve spoken to Compass CHC but they wanted £1,000s to do an appeal (I think?) and felt he was only a borderline case. He really is quite well in some respects - barely any medication, no breathing issues, no nutrition issues, no significant cognitive issues. It’s mostly down to mobility and he would be in great shape if it wasn’t for the underlying condition causing it (no treatment, no cure, doesn’t usually get this bad for people). His own contribution to care costs will be nearly £500/week. The hospital social worker told me only ‘dying’ people get CHC but she was horrible all round.
I’d not heard of Care to be Different - I’ve looked them up and I’ll call them
Do you have Power of Attorney?
Some people are not telling the whole truth!
Yes my mother has power of attorney my father has full mental capacity. But the financial one has enabled us to sort out the self-funding while his savings lasted, and to do the financial assessment with the local authority, it’s been extremely useful, my dad certainly wouldn’t have felt up to doing that (he was very anaemic and weak until a blood transfusion). And he is mid 80s.
Who do you think may not be telling the whole truth?
I reclaimed £8,000 on my mum’s behalf because the LA hadn’t applied the rules properly!
I would start by making a Subject Access Request to the LA, easy to do via the LA website.
Ask for copies of everything related to dad within the last year.
It’s a legal requirement that they comply, in full within a month.
The. You will know what has been going on behind the scenes, free.
Hi BB,
Thank you for this - I hadn’t thought of that! I imagine I might read some unflattering things about myself as we were under huge pressure to have dad back at my parents’ house at the hospital stage despite my (I think very valid) grave concerns. Loads of guilt tripping etc.
With regard to the self funding, were you aware that there was a choice of being assessed jointly or individually? This can make a big difference if, for example, dad worked and had a private pension, mum didn’t work.
Jointly the amount at which the LA starts contributing is around £46,000, singly, around £23,000. Carers UK have a confidential helpline who can go through things with you.
Never trust anything a social worker tells you about finance.
If you Google Charging for Care and look at the .gov pages, the basic rules are there.