After posting here several times in the summer I have finally decided to increase support for my mum who is currently in a nursing home in Kent. She needs me close more frequently than my fortnightly 600 mile trips can allow. Options are having her to live with me or in a care home locally to me where I can support her care daily. Challenges are there is a DOLS in place and the local authority aren’t supporting the move and she doesn’t have capacity. However I am the relevant person’s representative and the only family member involved so just posting in here about how to get her moved while das ing opposition from the local authority who also fund the care. Any thoughts? Maybe I should contact the helpline or Beacon for their initial free advice? Anyway any thoughts would be appreciated
OK Thanks. Will do that. I probably need to wait for the social worker to visit mum next week and sh has said have a best interests meeting but I have asked for mum to visit me at Christmas as well and am reluctant to have things drag on. I will take action this week though if the social worker drags things out or starts to.
Welcome back. I did wonder what was happening with you and your Mum.
There is now a DOLS in place then. Which LA is opposing her move?
Remind me how her care is funded.
Re waiting fir the social worker - bear in mind that a lot of services virtually shut down over Christmas and New Year and it will be very difficult to get much done over this time.
Are all the arrangements in place for your Mum’s Christmas visit? Try and do as much prep in advance as possible to make things as easy on yourself as possible as full time caring is tough. Does your Mum use any special equipment?
It is Kent County Council opposing her move. A lot has happened since the early summer. Partly through my battling with the various people (nursing home and local authority). So it is Kent County Council involved. We already have had one ‘best interests meeting’ when we agreed to ‘watch and wait’ as my mum continued to recover from her surgery. She is now fully mobile which is fantastic but is unsteady and did have a fall recently. She has a stoma but is quite independent (continent, helps with dressing and making her bed). She can do stairs with assistance. Her care is funded by the LA so I am currently trying to explore the quickest and most effective way to get her moved. She wanted to come back with me when I left yesterday and each time I go she gets more upset. It is heartbreaking. There has been a period where she would say one thing to me and another to staff and social workers but now she is clearly saying she wants me to sort everything out although it is stressful for her to think about moving and so sometimes she does backtrack and she has been assessed as lacking capacity. I am going through a court of protection process and yesterday I got an order from them asking for more information (why do I need to be made a deputy instead of the court making decisions, is there an ongoing need for me to make welfare decisions or is it just a one-off decision that needs to be made and could be made by the court, why can’t decisions be made collaboratively with the LA) so I need to send off more information. I have only just re-stated mum’s need to be with me and raised the issue of Christmas with me and the initial response by the LA was a defensive one - how can mum decide what she wants if she does not have capacity so I feel like the battle lines are being drawn. So this is the up-to-date position
It’s good that your Mum is gaining her mobility etc and doing more for herself again. Falls though can really knock self confidence.
what stupid questions from the CoP - would any of them rather a court made a decision on their family members welfare rather than their family!
With people with a learning disability - provision out of county is often charged at a higher rate than for those placed within the county. Therefore, LA’s are always keen to keep people within the county they live as care is cheaper. The only exception is with NHS funded care of course. I don’t know whether the care of elderly adults would be funded by the new or old LA.
The Care Act clearly states that people are entitled to the right to a family life - so being near family is a part of that.
A lot for you to sort. I would definitely seek as much advice as possible from both the helplines you refer to in your post at the start of the thread. The more information you have the better.
Thanks Melly. I did suspect the funding issues you mention. My understanding is that Kent would have to pay wherever mum goes and so that may well be part of what they are trying to do - protect their finances. However, yes I am about to email the helplines and see what support is available and what advice the helplines have. I have emailed the social worker this morning, laying out my position and rationale, as well as complaining at the lack of wellbeing protection for mum, and also to the director of adult social care to escalate my concerns because it is almost 6 months now. However, I now have clarity about what mum wants so just need to find a way to make it happen.
It is stressful though and very distressing for both me and mum so thanks for your support
Have a look at the Continuing Healthcare Framework. The easiest place I can think of (busy pre Christmas!!) where it talks about the Human Rights Act and the “Right to a Normal Family Life”.
So either you mum is totally and utterly isolated where she is now - and as you say she has a DOLS in place, or she moves to be near you, her closest relative, who you have known for X number of years. As opposed to the LA staff who don’t have a clue about her!
I would argue that the LA should be doing everything possible to enable mum to move. They have a duty to consider the needs of her family carer, i.e. you.
In reaching their decision, they should be considering your wellbeing, both physical and emotional, the cost of long journeys and the loss of your weekends, when you can’t do what you would otherwise be doing, including your own washing, housework etc. and socialising.
Mum will be no worse off, but much better off as a result of the move - and again mention the Human Rights Act!
Where mum was already living in a care home in her original county, I believe that they would always be responsible for her financially. I have a friend whose daughter has learning difficulties, in residential care. Although my friend moved from Bournemouth to Hampshire many years ago, Bournemouth are still responsible for her care.
Yes that is my understanding too, BowlingBun. So far I have emailed the social worker, laying out all of the issues you mention, and the director of adult social care, and the Carers UK advice line. Just about to email Beacon too. I haven’t as yet mentioned that they have a duty to consider my needs too as they relate to mum’s care so will see where I can add that in during my various contacts. Thanks for highlighting that as an issue.
How would you describe mum’s mental state when she was deemed not to have capacity, in relation to now?
Such assessments must be specific to one issue only.
So she might not be able to manage her money, in which case she lacks capacity in that area.
On the other hand, if she can say clearly that she wants to move to be nearer to you, then she has capacity for that specific decision.
Was she ill at the time of the first assessment?
Clearly physically she’s much better now, which is good.
Assessments should be done by someone independent.
Obviously the home has a vested interest in keeping her there as they want her fees every week!
Mum has had a recent re-assessment by the independent DOLS assessor in November so there is still some incapacity about knowing what has happened to her. However, she is more able (in my view) tho think and talk about where she wants to live. In the past she would just get very stressed and withdraw and be totally overwhelmed, but now she can say she wants me to decide. However, it is also true to say that her short-term memory is very poor so she can change what she says over quite short time periods but all the same you can get consistency of response over time. She was physically ill at the first assessment as she was recovering from a stoma surgery and has recovered quite a lot physically and psychologically since then but as I say has had a more recent capacity assessment. On the other hand, I haven’t been present at any of them.
I personally think there is some sort of collusion between the home and the local authority. That having been said the first manager of the home I dealt with at best left suddenly, and at worst was sacked. The new one is no better but they are doing everything in their power to keep mum there, including making improvements I said were vital for her wellbeing (e.g. activities for the residents, social interaction among the residents by encouraging them to use the lounge). I have complained to CQC so current changes may have come from that but all of this does not address the core issue of mum needing to move to Manchester for her right to a family life and because she needs me close to her.
Although the LA are using your Mum’s well-being as their argument, they will still be swayed by £££&p.
Do you know how much the home charge the LA for their funded residents? Do they get a discount based on the number of LA residents based there? Also, what do the care homes you like in Manchester charge for funded residents and do they charge the same rate for those funded by another LA?
Hi Melly, I do not know anything about the funding of the home. I have asked several times and my questions have not been answered. I don’t know how much the home charges the LA for their funded residents nor about discounts, It is only a small home, though, with 24 residents capacity. I have only visited a couple of homes so far and when I visited them CHC was being assessed. I am looking at homes that state that they accept LA funded residents but I don’t know the actual amounts. I am receiving mum’s benefits and pension in the anticipation that at some point finances will be discussed. The only discussion about finances so far was when I was sent a ‘petty cash’ invoice for chiropody fees which I did pay but asked to see the invoice from the chiropodist but none was forthcoming. I doubt that any such chiropodist visited and I have not had any other ‘petty cash’ requests to pay since. Other than that, though, I am in the dark and I have noticed that the nursing home and the LA selectively answer my questions, and leave unanswered the questions they seemingly do not want to address.
My LA have the reading equivalent of “selective deafness” too.
It’s so maddening. I ask straight questions, that they answer with waffle.
I’m surprised there have been no financial assessments yet. Bear in mind that they should only charge after they have done assessments, and not backdate any!
Thanks Bowlingbun that is very useful to know about the financial assessments and charges only being payable after that. Of course they might have done some of these assessments and just not told me. Being excluded from meetings and assessments has been a pattern too, but they can’t do that so much now that I am the relevant person’s representative.
It is reassuring somehow about the ‘selective deafness’ issue although no less frustrating of course.