My mother is in a nursing home fir a continuing health needs assessment and social care assessment but the care is really not good. Last week I visited (I do a weekly 600 mile round trip to visit) and had a long list of concerns related to medication, feeding, rehabilitation after surgery etc. Today I discovered the staff are not helping her eat (she has a fractured arm so can’t feed herself as the fracture is in the dominant arm) and the food quality is awful (frozen pizza or beans in toast were two examples of meals). Ah is also poorly positioned in the bed such that she can’t access her food and drink on the table. There is no rehabilitation happening and she was left and I feel incontinence pads are not being used appropriately and no proper continence assessment has been carried out. It feels as though mum mum has just been dumped in this nursing home and her hope and Mind are declining week on week. She improves markedly during my visits but this is just once a week and she is upset when I leave and so am I. So my question is can I get her out of this nursing home. She is very frail so I could not just put her in the car and bring her home and she does have complex needs but she needs care she is not getting. Do I have any rights associated with getting her out of this nursing home either to bring her home, or make the CCG and care home place her with me or close to me or even somewhere where the care is not so detrimental to her wellbeing. Any help or advice would be very much appreciated.
Hi Elizabeth,
this all sounds so stressful and distressing.
Is your Mum considered to have mental capacity or do you have POA for her health and welfare? You would need one of these to be the case to move her - otherwise there would have to be a Best Interests Meeting.
As your Mum’s needs are going to increase as she gets older, a nursing (or care and nursing home) close enough for you to easily visit, sounds like the best longterm bet. You could start research suitable ones now, since your Mum is not self-funding(?) check they take people with CHC/social care funding before visiting.
The Care Act stipulates that your Mum is entitled to a family life - so you can use this to support your argument to move her closer to you, however, the funding gets more complicated when you move area.
Others may have personal experience of this or more knowledge. You could also contact the helpline for signposting to further information: Our telephone Helpline is available on 0808 808 7777 from Monday to Friday, 9am – 6pm or you can contact us by email (advice@carersuk.org)
Melly1
Thanks for your reply Melly. It is really helpful. I don’t have power of attorney but was thinking of applying for court of protection in order to have more of a say in my mum’s care but it is not clear as yet whether she has capacity or not. The care home have applied for a deprivation of liberty safeguarding (DOLS) which I don’t agree with.
Thanks for clarifying the best interests meeting. The social services had mentioned this to me. They also said I could look around to see if there was a care home locally that I prefer but I don’t know about the funding. How much would NHS continuing care or social care pay and would my mum still get her pension and pension credit? She is not self-funding but the little that I have researched so far seem to have varying prices and I have been told by the CCG that I need to watch out for additional ‘lifestyle charges’
I have contacted the helpline so hope to get some clarity soon. It is very difficult though doing these weekly long trips and nothing seems to be happening with the assessments and in the meantime my mum is not getting the care and rehabilitation she needs and needs more family support. However, I realise that I may just need to hang in there for now. It is very difficult though.
If mum qualifies for CHC, then ask any possible homes if they accept CHC funded patients. It’s as simple as that.
Thanks. It would be nice if it were that simple. Due to her accident she is currently being assessed for CHC and social care. There is a DOLS application submitted by the care home. I don’t know what the rate is for CHC and social care and care homes habe different prices and my mum is immobile so needs help to get from Margate to Manchester. So I am needing to work all this out. Still I can research homes it is true but her needs are complex.
It is unlawful for an authority to set a fixed rate! I spoke from my own experience, and knowledge of the CHC Framework.
Thanks for this. I will explore it further myself too.
In the Framework it talks about the right to a normal family life. I used this when it was proposed to put mum an hour’s drive away. I managed to get her a home a mile away. CQC has a list of all registered care homes, and their grading for the home. A useful start. In Hampshire, the council has an online list of all vacancies of nursing homes, updated daily. Try to visit one home one day at a time, and make notes immediately. immediately. Make an appointment for the first visit, remembering the “do you accept HC patients”,to meet the Manager/Matron and look round. Is she genuinely kind and caring, good relationship with the staff? Do the staff say Hello to you, that residents with respect? What’s on the menu for the day? Do residents look clean and tidy? You will very quickly get the feel of the home. Trust your instinct.
Thanks again. I contacted two homes today but haven’t visited yet. Will wait until I know whether funding is to be CHC or social care. Also spoke to mind legal help line. To be fair everyone is saying mum will be transferred near me but the assessment process is slow and mum needs me visiting more now so I hope it can be sorted out soon. I am feeling a lot better tonight after getting a lot more information today, know what my next steps are and have started to research homes and the option of looking after mum myself. The Carers UK advice line sent me lots of information too but I will think about visiting homes sooner so that I can say to the people down in Kent where I want mum to go.
Hi Elizabeth,
From my experiences the Deprivation of Liberty Safeguard (DoLS) may actually make things a lot easier for you. Anyone subject to a DoLS has to have a representative… if you are the closest family member that should be you. The representative can then get Legal Aid funded legal advice for someone under a DoLS. This should cover a solicitor giving you advice around Best Interests and making any applications to the Court of Protection (if things get that far) required for challenging any Best Interests decisions - such as moving nursing home.
William thanks for explaining this, lots of useful information for all of us.
William, thank you. That is really useful to know. I am already listed in the DOLS application as my mum’s representative so if it opens some possibilities it may be very useful. I had tried already to contact some solicitors (for legal aid around the DOLS) but no responses as yet. I haven’t gone down the court of protection route yet but am holding it as a possibility.
Thankfully, finally the social service processes have kicked in for managing the CHC assessment so things are starting to happen, and I am visiting two care homes next week to start to find the right one for my mum. I just hope my mum doesn’t deteriorate further but if I can give her information about what is happening hopefully she will be OK. I am off down to Margate again tomorrow on my weekly 600-mile round trip so it will be reassuring at least to see her and provide some support.
One of the important questions to ask any home is “Can you look after mum, whatever health issues she develops, for the rest of her life?” You want this to be her last move.
My mum’s nursing home inspired this question. They said that they couldn’t manage huge blood loss, or give mum treatment like transfusions, but other than that, yes they could deal with everything.
After a mini stroke in the home, mum’s doctor sent her to hospital and she was in the “Assessment” ward. It was a very negative experience for both of us, they weren’t equipped to deal with mum’s disability either. After that, and the many, many hospital admissions previously, she told the doctor she didn’t ever want to go to hospital again.
Thanks Bowlingbun, I will make sure that I ask this question of all the homes I visit.