Carer Living-in with Elderly Parent

Benefits, finances and funding
1

Hello, I’m new here just gathering information for my Sister who is already a carer for our elderly father who currently lives alone.

She recently applied for and was awarded carer’s allowance, but like many people annoyed to see that it resulted in an unexpected reduction of income for our father. That aside, she is considering moving into a spare room of the parental home in order to function as a live-in carer, due to developing health issues.

We are hoping there are some with similar experiences here who can point out some of the pitfalls and possible pointers and advice for this situation.

–

  • We know that another occupant would possibly affect our father’s Council Tax Reduction, however Carer’s are apparently “Disregarded” for Council Tax purposes…does this count in this case…or how does it work exactly?

  • Is a live-in Carer forced to pay rent to the owner or is it at the discretion of the homeowner?

  • Are there any other problems known with this construction?

Looking forward to and grateful for some feedback as we have to make decisions very soon about our situation.

Thanks! :wink:

2

Hi Graham. … welcome to the canteen.

A potential minefield if every there was one !

One problem … father’s health … what would your sister’s position be if a care home was the only option ?

Assuming fully funded , only a matter of time before the funds were exhausted … anything from £ 500 + PER WEEK !

A calculator for likely , local costs follows … allow 10 / 20% in excess of what figures are revealed :

Financing Later Life Care - Which?

CHC / NHS Continuing Healthcare / NHS Nursing Funded Care … considered if health is deteriorating ?
https://www.carersuk.org/forum/support-and-advice/all-about-caring/chc-coughlan-grogan-judgements-nhs-contuing-healthcare-nhs-fnc-hospital-discharges-all-under-this-one-thread-35998

If it is , a MAJOR consideration !

FOR THE FULL SP ON THE WHOLE ASPECT OF CARE HOME CONSIDERATIONS , A LINK TO AGE UK ON THIS , INCLUDING THE CURRENT MAGICAL FIGURE OF £ 23,000 AND ALL THAT STEMS FROM THAT :

Paying for permanent residential care | Paying for a care home | Age UK

Quite a lot more information available over there at AGE UK.

Word of warning … Green Paper on Social Care … now promised for this Spring … changes to the rules of the ball game ???

Benefits wise , an online benefits calculator for a financial m.o.t. on both your father and your sister :

https://www.entitledto.co.uk/

If over 65 , Attendance Allowance immediately springs to mind as does the 25% reduction in Council Tax as you yourself intimated.

If Universal Credit has been rolled out on your father’s manor , that may have an effect.

Loss of benefit when Carers Allowance kicked in ?

Not unusual … the financial calculator can confirm that.

Upto date Needs / Carers Assessments done through the LA ?

Details on both of those available should you need them.

If Direct Payments are offered , please note that a family member CANNOT receive them through their caree. Any payment
from caree to carer , as opposed to an outright gift , can be considered " Questionable " … particularly if the carer is also
claiming income related benefits … undeclared income.

Paying rent ?

Through an AST formal agreement … as if a BTL landlord / tenant … or an informal arrangement where no records are kept ?

Power of Attorney and wills … also considerations … I will post links if so needed.

Enough from me … the above are the basics … some basics ? … more questions / observations will arise … particularly after
reading through the AGE UK guidelines.

Feel free to bounce anything off us here on the forum.

3

I would NEVER recommend moving back in with a parent!

How old is dad, and how serious is his dementia?
Is he claiming exemption from Council tax on the grounds of Severe Mental Impairment? Easy to claim, and what is more, it can be backdateable to the day of diagnosis!!
Does anyone have power of attorney?
Does dad have over £23,000 in the bank? Yes/No?
Has your sister had a Carers Assessment from Social Services, and dad, a Needs Assessment?

4

Hi Graham

Does your sister have another residence that she is keeping or will your dad’s home become her main residence? She will need to claim Carers disregard if she moves in for CTAX and if dad has dementia he could claim a disregard for Severe Mental Impairment. This would reduce the ctax bill to just 50% being the property element that would still be payable. As both resident adults get a 25% disregard the liability would be just 50%. If Dad were claiming SMI and living alone he would get 100% discount on the grounds of the property being wholey occupied by SMI residents and there would be zero CTAX to pay.
The first scenario is a double disregard and the second an exemption.

5

Hi Graham
A lot depends in how old sister is, and if she is giving up her own property to live there. If she is under 60 when Dad needs to go into a care home she would be homeless as she has no right to stay in his property. If he is a homeowner it would have to be sold to pay for fees once all his other assets have been exhausted. If he is a Council tenancy, the tenancy wouldn’t pass to her. If he is a private tenant then it is unlikely the tenancy would pass to her

It would be best for her if she could retain her own properly in her own name, even if she docent live in it.

So as you see a lot depends on his assets (or lack of)

Money aside, she needs to think of the isolation, it will rapidly become all consuming and she won’t get a social life, support or friends. You could do a family Rota to give her regular repsite breaks and holidays, she will need them .

If she has given up work to care she will find it very difficult to get employed again after caring.
Her health will also likely suffer due to lack of physical exercise, and her tiredness and exhaustion will increase. She is already finding it hurts her finances, and Carers Allowance is a pittance.

On the plus side, she may feel good about helping, initially, but what if this lasts for 5,10 or even 15 years. My Mum is 96 tomorrow, and that isn’t unusual these days

I’ve been a member of this forum for 4 years now and in that time we had 1 daughter who gave up everything to nurse her Dad at Home. Within 2 months she was exhausted, within 4 months he was in a Home and within 6 he had passed away. She had a GOOD, short experience, but she is the only one. Its when it goes on and on it gets difficult.

In summary, as anyone declines it takes more then one person to provide care. It gets to the stage it takes a whole team. No one can do it alone 24/7 for more than a few weeks.

6

Many thanks for all the constructive replies. Especially those about how caring takes a toll on one’s own health. We have been there already, so I’m confident that if it should get so far we would know what to do.

My Dad (87) had already cared for our Mum (complex medical problems/ amputee) for 11 years by himself until it got too much.
She is now in a home nearby, and after much disruption, stress and moving around she is comfortable and my Dad has a big weight off his shoulders also. Such a relief for us all. We are just a team of 3 kids trying to let them get the most out of their days.

We are lucky in that my Dad is still mentally fit, so no Dementia to worry about currently, but his eyesight/hearing not too good these days plus some arthritic/Rheumatic problems. Driving to appointments, shopping etc. are manageable but we worry about his safety. Winter depression affects him also…it’s cold but he’d rather be outside pottering around in the garden or the garage.

Yes, my Sister would live-in and not have another property. She has recently given up work due to her own health problems, and moving out of the house she was in after the teenage daughter moved out.

  • So we are clear that it would have an effect on Council Tax…we expected that.

  • Also we know that the carer’s allowance is low, so that’s accepted.

  • We have no idea about the long term. We will just have to see how it goes.

Dad says simply ’ The B******* are not getting my house, I worked for it all my life, paid my NI and Taxes, and didn’t just blow all my money at the boozer like some blokes did"…

The ‘Continuing Care’ story has also recently come to our attention as there was a programme on TV around the subject.

We are debating whether to tackle this. We can see how complex it is and all the excuses used by the powers that be not to award it. Primarily we are happy that Mum & Dad are relatively healthy, and wondering if all the stress would be worth it.

When she went into a home this was mentioned by nobody. All questions revolved around how much was in the bank and if you owned property. No mention of the fact that the NHS should actually be funding her care.

My Mum had apparently signed paperwork signing over her half of the parental house as soon as she was taken in to care DESPITE my Father having power of attorney and repeated mentions of the fact to the authorities. We question the legality of this all. It recently happened again when the contracts of the care home were changed and she signed papers regarding her care package. Once again mentioned to the manager…but we just get ignored.

In general my Mum is quite lucid and knows what’s going on, but sometimes there is no focus and in the case of infections that she is prone to, medication puts her in another zone altogether, hence the POA.

The biggest joke is the ‘contract’ and the supposed services offered on a daily basis…but that’s another subject altogether.

My Sister has recently battled to get Dad his Pension Credits sorted out… apparently an 81 page form which even she had to get assistance with in order to complete it… what a shambles.

7

Your welcome , Graham.

Judging by your last post , time to do your own research through the links provided earlier ?

That care home saga … reeks of shady practices !!!

Somewhat retrospectively , one for the legal fraternity to handle ?

A question of what the " System " wants to do , and what you CAN do ?

From the main CHC thread … relevant whenever posters report receiving " Advice " … our BB Clause :

GOLDEN RULES … NEVER BELIEVE ANYTHING ANY ACADEMIC AND / OR SUIT TELLS YOU ABOUT EITHER !!!

CHECK , AND CHECK AGAIN , WHAT YOU ARE BEING TOLD AGAINST THE INFORMATION AND GUIDANCE PROVIDED IN THE VARIOUS TEXTS AND LINKS THAT FOLLOW !!!

That advice extends right across the whole , rotten to the core , social care system !!!

The System works to protect it’s own interests … not yours !!!

Over the years , we have seen far too many posters having been ripped off by the System !!!

8

Just seen this thanks to one of your links:

AGE UK Website:

Does my home have to be included in the means test?
In some situations, your home won’t be taken into account in the means test. There are a few circumstances where this applies:

If you need temporary or short-term care only, your home won’t be included in the means test.
Your home also won’t be counted if it’s still occupied by:

your partner or former partner, unless they are estranged from you
your estranged or divorced partner IF they are also a lone parent
a relative who is aged 60 or over
a child of yours aged under 18
a relative who is disabled.

==

Amazing information…a job for the solicitor I think!!

9

That’s why I posted the links !

The links I post are like books … you won’t now what’s inside until you start reading.

What other " Untruths " will you discover … the 2019 version of the word LIES ?

Time to don the deerstalker , and load up that shotgun ?

No time limit on that grouse shooting season when it comes to social care !!!

If needed , both barrels … shoot first , questions later ?

That AGE UK link is YOUR ammunition !

As mentioned earlier , get everything set up by the book , ready to launch and … the Green Paper on Social Care
is announced and changes the ball game !

Social care is a warzone … no prisoners are being taken !

If you prefer a gambling analogy … a poker game payed with a marked deck … and the only player not knowing is … you !

10

Thanks again…By the way, liking the “Number 6” Avatar!!

11

Yep … somewhat ironic … he spent 17 episodes refusing to give information … I do the complete opposite.

Still , one thing in common … both of us inhabited " Gulags " … of sorts … mine was bigger than his … it was
… and still is …called … CarerLand.

Even the daily " Ration " … Carers allowance … is rationed … only 1 in 10 actually claim it … and at a level that only
provides just enough to pay for a couple of hot meals a day , and enough for a few hours of heat per day.

In addition , both of us did not like the flavour being sold by the System.

Once in , try to get out !

Even as a former carer … with so many current inmates needing information !

7.8 MILLION out there … probably top 8 MILLION by the end of 2019 … a few tens contribute on this forum !

ALL in their own way serviant to the System … and their carees … the ball and chain , some heavier than others.

Keeping reading … how many other revelations will you discover ???

12

The B******* are not getting my house, I worked for it all my life, paid my NI and Taxes, and didn’t just blow all my money at the boozer like some blokes did"…

My Dad had a similar attitude and I was told “Don’t touch my money” as his cognition declined. Sadly the powers that be don’t share that view and the house can and sometimes does disappear to fund residential care.

I am just pondering something I’m not clear on. The over 60 rule for adult children living at home making the house excluded from financial assessment for residential care------ I am just wondering whether the adult child would need to have lived there for a number of years as their main residence before this applies. If not I can see a loop hole whereby a child could move back in to save the family home just before full time care was needed. I am obviously not implying that is the case with your sister but worth knowing the regulation small print as not sure if the over 60 rule would apply in these circumstances? Perhaps someone else knows more and can clarify?

13

AGE UK link ?

Answers virtually all questions on the rules of the care home sector.

If not , there are legal opinions out there on all aspects … shall I have a trawl ?

AGE UK Factsheet 38 may well provide a direct answer.

If not , recommend bouncing said question off them … good track record in answering directly.

14

Graham, if your father was over 60 when mum went into the care home, the value of the house in which he lived should have been TOTALLY DISREGARDED!!

The LA, in getting mum to sign over half the house, was acting unlawfully. Please consult a solicitor asap on this subject, or it will all come back to bite you when dad dies!
.

When my mum went into residential care, the LA acted unlawfully, I challenged them, and got £8,000 refunded. If he hasn’t done so already, make sure dad gives you or your sister or joint Power of Attorney.
Dad should make a “subject access request” to the LA. In layman’s terms, that means asking for a copy everything they hold on computer about the house transfer arrangements. This is very important, you can write the letter for dad to sign, if that’s easier.

How old is your sister? If she is living with dad as his carer, and is over 60 if he goes into residential care, again, the value of the house should be disregarded, so from this aspect it would be good for her to be living there.


Unfortunately, I have a lot going on today, so can’t write more now. The more info you can give us the better. Also ask your sister to join the forum, so she can read of the experiences of others.

If Graham is yoru real name, please change it so you cannot be identified.

15

More chapters to read , Graham … Mr. X … courtesy of BB ?

That word again … UNTRUTHS ?

The System is full of them.

16

I always used to say “You know when a politician is lying…his lips are moving!” Sadly, the same applies to Social Workers/Care Managers/Practitioners. When the heck did SW’s become “Practitioners”. In my area, they now seem to be “SENIOR Practitioners”. If they spent more time doing their jobs and less time thinking up stupid titles, we might get better help.

17

Social Workers … the waste disposal technicians of the social care system … perhaps ?

Has a certain reality about it ?

After all , what do most utter than also comes with a rather unpleasant smell ?

Still … yer roses will appreciate it ?

18

BB practitioners are more experienced social workers. I know, it doesn’t seem to make the slightest bit of difference these days. Just a fancy sounding name. Sounds good. If they used their so called skills and didn’t try saying what they think you want to hear,then doing nothing I wouldn’t care what the title was!!

19

BB thanks for the tips! :wink: