My sister went back to the North East Autism Society college today, and I dismayed to learn that not only had she been a real handful (mam said she’d been throwing furniture around), but that I was being blamed for this: apparently my sister had said she was distraught about how depressed I’ve been lately, and that “since I have a job and a car” (neither of which my sister will ever have) I had no reason to be depressed!
My grief was compounded even more last night when I looked up on LinkedIn two of the people who had run the National Autistic Society social group (which I’d attended until 2017, when it fell victim to funding cuts) and realized (from the dates in which they attended university) just how young they were – they’re only in their mid-twenties now!
I feel like I’ve wasted the last 11 years of my life failing to progress in my career, most likely because not winning permission to move out has drained every last drop of confidence out of me! I even feel I was conned into doing a PhD: not only was there a degree of emotional blackmail involving my grandma, but also I believed that once I completed it then my mam would be willing to let me move out! (It seemed illogical that she wouldn’t be given the dearth of physics jobs in my local area: perhaps she was driven by a delusion that I could carry on in employment at my local university?)
(I’m also wondering if I should be recounting my experiences on Wrong Planet or a similar forum for people on the autistic spectrum…)
3.59am is a horrible time to be chewing things over, when everything seems worst.
As an outsider (with two sons about the same age as you) it is clear that you are very unhappy, and the major cause is your home situation.
You talk about "not winning permission to move out. As a grown adult YOU DO NOT NEED ANYONE’S PERMISSION to move out.
You say that “every last drop of confidence” has been drained out of you.
The reason is clear, mum wants to keep control of you.
That’s not what a good mum would want for her child, especially one as academically able as you.
You have reached a crossroads in your life.
Either you
accept this as a life sentence, or
you plan your escape.
Don’t waste your life on a family that don’t appreciate you as they should. Ignore your sister blaming you for her behaviour, as you have said she is epileptic and has severe learning difficulties, so doesn’t understand things properly. My own son with SLD doesn’t understand the real world either.
You do, you deserve to have a good life where you are in control of your life, where you live, and where you work.
We cannot give you practical help, but we can give you lots of moral support.
George - it’s good that your sister has attended the Autism Society college, but a lot of what I read does not ring true. You say she has a mental age of six. I don’t think a six-year-old would properly understand the concept of depression or even the desirability of having a job. (When I was six I saw a job as something you did not like to do so you were paid as “compensation” and you needed the money after all.) Regarding her behaviour there, well epilepsy can bring out problems but since this is your mum’s report I can’t help but think that there is some exaggeration or distortion of the truth here. The College probably knows how to handle your sister.
In answer to your original post - yes you are a carer, not just for mum it seems but for everyone in that household. It sounds as your your mum was controlling of your dad, and when his health took a downturn and he could not deliver, she turned to you. She clearly wants you to be her carer 24-7 till she pops her clogs. She objected to your dancing classes because she realised where that could lead to next.
So you need to take control yourself and put your relationship with your mum at a workable and respectable distance. As Bowlingbun suggested you need to plan a new life and make it happen.
But don’t try to plan too far ahead. It sounds as though at one time you were concerned about where to move to, to suit a possible future wife. Suit yourself first; the time to consider a partner’s wishes is when you have a steady relationship.
Don’t dwell too much on younger people who have achieved more than you, or consider that you have “wasted” your life so far. You have shown compassion in caring for your family and can take some pride in having cared for them - but it is time to move on. It is not going to be easy, but neither is putting up with mum’s current behaviour in your present living situation. I have known people to marry in their forties, leading to successful marriages; it is not too late. You have demonstrated that you are made of strong stuff in your academic achievements. Now is the time to apply your determination in sorting out your social life. As others have suggested, make good use of social services.
To me it seems like my mam is a person who has very little left to lose: her only concern seems to be ensuring that my sister has a carer (me) when she’s gone, and if that last hope of hers was dashed there would be no reason for her not to avenge my betrayal by committing suicide.
From the Sunday Times New Book of Body Maintenance I can quote a list of suicide danger signs: it advised that anyone showing two or more needs immediate professional help, but I can see that at least 5 and possibly 6 apply to my mam (I’ve marked the ones I feel apply in bold):
1. Depression. The individual is withdrawn and cannot relate to others.
2. A family history of suicide.
3. An earlier suicide attempt.
4. The person has a definite idea of how the suicide will be committed. He or she may be tidying up their affairs in readiness, and giving away treasure possessions. 5. Anxiety, as well as depression, is present.
6. The person suffers from a painful physical illness, chronic pain or severe disablement. (Not true of my mam, but she cares for two people with serious mental disabilities.)
7. He or she is dependent on alcohol, illegal drugs or prescribed drugs.
8. There is a feeling of uselessness. In the elderly, there may be a lack of acceptance of retirement. 9. Social isolation, loneliness or uprooting. There is the possibility of having to live with few human contacts. 10. Severe insomnia.
11. Financial worries. 12. No philosophy of life to help them cope, such as a comforting religion.
13. Recovery from depression. When a person appears to be getting better, he or she may at last have enough energy to commit suicide.
Desperation can drive people to do the cruellest of things: I’m reminded of a blog post I read on the issue of forced marriages of people with learning disabilities (and where I actually mentioned my own situation in the comments).
Ironic you say that when my sister never handles money herself. Incidentally, I e-mailed one of those who deal with her at the college just to verify my mam’s account, and it did seem to be basically correct. One thing I forgot to mention in my last post (maybe because it was of course made at 03:59) was that my sister was also upset at me because she believed I now viewed her as a burden.
Maybe I am a carer for my sister to some extent as well (or at least was: I used to print off photos which she’d e-mailed me from the NE-AS college on Wednesday evenings, but now mam angrily told me that my sister would now be printing them off herself at college as she didn’t want to burden me any more) but I can’t see how I am in any way a carer for my dad.
Mam also had a go at me by reminding me that my grandfather had warned my grandma not to put me on a pedestal, warning that I’d bleed my parents dry and then run away from them in their time of need. She also points out that she’d fallen out with her brother because he’d left the village in order to get out of caring for his parents, and that if I moved to be near a Metro station (which I’d mentioned to my dad this morning) “it might as well be a Tube station” as I’d demonstrated my perfidious intentions…
For as long as I can remember, my mum made excuses and blamed others for all manner of things.
I live my life differently.
I’ve had some really awful experiences, nearly died twice, and have life long health problems, had 10 operations, some incredibly painful, but I do my very best to be happy and see the funny side of life as much as I can.
I want to be remembered for all the mad crazy things I’ve done - and want “Make your own kind of music” played at my funeral.
You only live once, you cannot control others, but you can control yourself.
I refuse to let the rubbish things in my life get the better of me.
The idea of avenging your betrayal defies logic. If your mum were to top herself, who would look after your sister then? Maybe you should consider (and your mum too) what would happen if YOU were to suddenly die from whatever cause. Don’t run scared of her suicide threats. As for books of maintenance, I see them as a guide to putting things right, not accepting the status quo. So how about organising that professional help? Mum’s GP could be a good starting point. Put those points to him/her.
You seem to be going at great lengths to find excuses for your mum’s behaviour. Count your blessings and you will find you have a lot going for you which many would envy.
You say you have 270k in the bank. That would buy quite a decent house outright in the north-east. (There’s nothing wrong with mortgages which most of us need of course, but house purchase is simplified if one is not necessary.) This is partially the result of a good job and partially the result of living for “low rent” with your mum, albeit in not the most amenable of circumstances. And it seems you have a steady job on which to build a career. It’s your choice whether to stay in the north-east but at a controlled distance from your family, or move south to climb the “fast career ladder”.
You mum is right when she says your sister should print her own photos. Don’t wet-nurse her; let the college bring her on. They will introduce her to handling money when they feel she is ready. I have the impression she has more about her than you give her credit for.
This is the time for your to turn your life round. You have plenty of options but the action is up to you.
So the key point of your problems is not your family’s disabilities but where you live. And you have identified that by moving out you could maintain some contact and assistance but make life so much easier for yourself.
That’s fine!
So go and buy that house.
I am about to go on a holiday abroad so you won’t hear from me again for a while. When I come back I’ll see how you are getting on. Best wishes again!
How would I go about finding a counsellor or therapist that would be willing to visit my mam at home?
(Which I feel is important as she cannot drive, lives in a place with not-great bus service, and doesn’t like to go out alone anyway because she doesn’t like leaving my sister alone with my dad…)
I’d printed off a copy of the “Why am I depressed” history that I linked to upthread: I was intending to show it to my mam at some point (to go over how I was really feeling) but before I could summon the courage to do so my sister had found it (this was March 7th) and showed it to her!
She was extremely distraught after reading it, to the point where she vomited profusely and spent the next two hours crying!
She did however make her own annotations to my print-out which I have reproduced here. While some of my original claims were factually wrong (like that I had £280k in the bank: I actually only have £128k and the rest is my mam’s money – not that she seems to have any idea what to do with it) and others may have been my delusions (that when mam was in hospital in 2016 after her brain operation she was questioning my ability to look after my sister, as opposed to my ability to look after myself), I’m struck by the way in which elsewhere she seems to be denying so much of her controlling behaviour.
How likely is it that she exerted this level of control over me out of fear and/or desperation even though she knew it was wrong, and her distress when seeing me describe it in a printed document was out of remorse for what she’d done? Does it give any other pointers as to her mental state? (Incidentally, I now know that she’s been on Sertraline for the past few years.)
Perhaps this gives me a lever if I wanted to try to build a social life, but perhaps it’s also exposing some obstacles unrelated to my mam (specifically time pressures)?
Currently on working days (Monday to Friday) my schedule is roughly as follows:
06:30 - Get up to get washed
06:55 - Have breakfast (my dad makes it)
07:15 - Set off in car to work
08:00 - Park car, begin walk to office
08:15 - Arrive at office
13:00-14:00 - Lunch break (I usually go for a walk into the city then, unless the weather is very bad
17:45 - Head back to car park
18:00 - Get in car
18:40 - Back home, have meal (again, my dad makes it along with my sister’s meal while I’m at work)
19:10 - Have bath
19:40 - Relax in my room (usually browsing the internet)
21:00 - Watch TV (and usually play a board game) with mam
22:00 - Go to bed
It would obviously help if I could somehow become more productive at work (I’m only required to do 7 hours a day at work, but I always seem to be falling behind in spite of actually doing more like 8 1/2 hours), but I’m not sure how to do that.
I’m a computer programmer (mostly Python along with C# in Unity3D), whose focus for the past few months has been getting the company’s Jenkins continuous integration system working the way it ought to be.
I apologize as I haven’t read all of this thread so I may be getting things totally wrong but I suggest you look up narcissist on the web and see how it fits in with your family. It is known to be very difficult to deal with narcissists as they manipulate you into feeling you are wrong not them. I had the misfortune to befriend one and could see how easily he takes people in. I have nothing to do with him any more.
You’ve probably been asked this already but have you had counselling and/or anti-depressants or even sleeping tablets? They might help you find your way out of this impossible situation. You are clearly trying to take practical steps already but it sounds to me like you are easily becoming discouraged although you do keep trying again which my new book tells me is the essence of resilience.
The quick answer to how do I find a suitable counsellor is ask your gp. There are plenty of them out there. Paying to see them privately is a great way to jump the queue and wouldn’t make a huge dent in your or your Mam’s savings (much cheaper than the dentist). Your gp will still be able to tell you how to find them. Have you registered as a carer with your gp? If not it might help.
Twice this week my mam mentioned she’d talked to Jean Straughan (an 80-something woman in my village which she knows). She’d had a son (a year younger than my mam) who qualified to go to the University of Cambridge: he’d been the talk of the village apparently, so unusual was his achievement at the time. Unfortunately it didn’t work out for him: he’d focused his whole life on his studies (not getting involved in other aspects of student life) and as a result in his second year he suffered a nervous breakdown and had to return home!
My mam had been using his example to suggest why living alone would probably be a seriously bad idea for me, but when I was thinking more deeply today I started seething inside as I though of my mam "why didn’t she tell me about him back when I was a student?! If she had then I may have lived a more balanced student life myself (like Jean’s son I engaged little in student life, but in my case I was living with my parents, and didn’t do much outside my studies for fear of my mam’s questions).
If I’d known about his case when I was a student I would have almost certainly socialized more with other students: both because I would have been informed of the risk of over-concentration on study, and because I wouldn’t have put all my social life eggs in the “wait until I move out” basket as I would have been alerted to the possibility that my mam would resist my moving out! (As it was I couldn’t imagine that my mam would have been anything other than thrilled to bits if I told her I wanted to move out, provided I had the income to do so.)
Instead, the cautionary tale which my mam used on me during my student days was that of Christopher Morrow: he was about a couple of years older than me and was lured off the rails by a woman he met while at university, who encouraged him to quit his studies and not even get a job either, as she “didn’t want him leaving her side” to use my mam’s words. I also learned that Christopher had all ended up using illegal drugs amongst other things.
Do you think my mam had been deliberately manipulating me during my time as a student (by using negative role models to suggest I should concentrate heavily on my studies, and not even think of getting a decent social life, while also luring me into a false sense of security by suggesting that once I had an income I could move out unopposed)?
George, you are clearly very intelligent, I haven’t got a clue about exactly what your work involves!
However, your last post shows that you need to STOP analysing the past. Whatever happened is gone, it can’t be changed or rewritten. Mum going over what happened to other people, what did or did not happen, is utterly irrelevant now.
(My own mum was always so busy thinking about the past that she ended up being stuck in the past, housebound, unhappy, with “stuff” from the past she refused to get rid of).
You need to draw a line under your “old” life so you can plan a new one. Every time this sort of thought crops up, mentally stamp on it. You are only looking forward now.
Please invest in your future by getting some good counselling as you need someone to confide in on your journey to a far, far better future.
George, can I return to your comments regarding your sister has a mental age of 6 and my interpretation of what you meant was that she would never be able to live independently.
well my daughter who is 52 has a mental age of 2 if I am generous. she lives independently from us, her parents. she has lived independently in supported living for the past 10 years. she has 24/7 care and is very happy. she cannot read, write, dress herself, cook anything.
however, she is taken out by her carers almost every day, shopping, walks in the park, swimming, shows (childrens because she would not understand adult shows, but that’s ok.) I have had to ask if she can stay in on sundays, for a rest. but they insist on taking her to church service in nearby church. of course, she has no clue as to what its all about, but likes the music, and the congregation like her.
I am not saying these sort of activities would sort your sister, but good staff would find out what she likes to do.
so please try and reassure your mum that’s its not all doom and gloom, if you find the right place. I must admit I was very worried at first, but your sister needs her own home just as much as you do. whats going to happen when your mum and dad pass away, as we all must eventually. (not too soon I hope) .I suspect if things carry on as they are, you will be the one that feels that you have to give up your job and care for her. and that is just not right or fair.
Hello again, George. Back from holiday I have been seeing how you have been getting on.
My own observations, based on my own undergrad days and the part of my career as a college lecturer, is that “swots” who take little part in social life tend to end up with the best gradings. This seems to be how it has worked for you. The case your mam quotes is just second-hand hearsay and there is probably more to this case than your mam is relating. Is it really relevant? The fact is that you have passed your exams and got your degrees, and now have a good job. Your problem is your present family situation.
. . .Do you think my mam had been deliberately manipulating me during my time as a student (by using negative role models to suggest I should concentrate heavily on my studies, and not even think of getting a decent social life, while also luring me into a false sense of security by suggesting that once I had an income I could move out unopposed)? . . .
It is pointless to speculate like this over what may have happened in the past. You are clearly unhappy in your present domestic situation and want and need a social life. Move on. Build on what you have achieved.
I noted from one of your other posts that you seem to have difficulty at work in getting things done in the time expected. I suspect that worries about your personal situation are encroaching into your work. At least you get meals cooked for you, which eases the strain a bit.
Having your own place, even if it’s just a studio flat, will enable you to switch off in a way that you never can at home. Start planning your escape. You have excellent qualifications, and a good job, and deserve succcess.
That means cutting the apron strings from your controlling mum and her drip feed of negativity. She is now too old to change, but you CAN change your own situation. Don’t leave it too late, or you will regret it forever.